2/22/06

Helpful Vote Shake Up

You may have noticed a shake-up in the most helpful reviewer rankings. This is because we rebuilt these stats following the departure of GoneAway and PBeavr - all of the helpful votes that they had given over the years were removed from the database.

10 comments:

  1. Ignatius J ReillyFebruary 22, 2006 5:14 PM

    Yeah, it really affected me. Numbah and Pbeavr never saw Eye to Eye, so I lost more helpfuls then he did. Oh, well. I know I'll catch up again. It's just a bit of a shock when I first saw it.

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  2. I am glad to see things as they should be, finally.

    Keep it up and eventually the ratings themselves might actually have credibility.

    Bravo

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  3. Actually, I don't think it really affected me all that much. ::shrug:: I don't remember what I had before, but I don't think it was that big of a difference.

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  4. I am not sure the helpful drops were complete. That may be in part due to how the database stored or marked them over the years. At any rate a significant effort was made to finally eliminate them and my view is that is how it should be.

    Whether a user chooses to leave or is forced out due to violations.

    As to affecting people...

    I will present a breakdown for interested parties. While Kamylienne may not remember her exact helpful count I am sure she, like most everyone else, had a pretty good idea of not just the general total but their position on the reviewer list and who was just above above and just below.

    The RIA admin could use IP hits to the most helpful list to see just how often that page is viewed by each user. Not a scientific breakdown of who REALLY checks it but a good way to measure it in some tangible way. The total page hit count for that page should be posted. It would be interesting to see how often people view it.

    I know it is far more than most would admit. But a shallowness seems to have been attached to those who actually admit interest. I find that silly myself.

    At any rate here are the totals for three time frames:

    I am not positive this formatting will be correct. if it doesn't post in here properly you can view my blob pbeavrlog.blogspot.com or something like that.

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  5. The data that follows is from three time periods:
    7-2005
    2 days BEFORE the purge
    Right AFTER purge

    The user name is given first followed by a rank at the given time period and the helpful votes. On a new line below is the helpfuls lost from the pruge (approximately). I will post this information on my own blog with proper formatting and will also add some comments. I happen to think the comments will be quite revealing for some.


    irishgit 1) 24410 1) 29432 1) 26178
    -3254

    CastleBee(2) 2) 21288 2) 23471 2) 19852
    -3619

    PBeavr 3) 17427 ----------- ----------- ----------

    GoneAway 4) 15010 ----------- ----------- ----------

    Ignatius-J-Reilly 5) 12070 3) 18331 4) 15411
    -2920

    tboneya 6) 10242 5) 15197 7) 11178
    -4019

    numbah 7) 8887 4) 17302 3) 15896
    -1406

    kamylienne 8) 8807 9) 11175 9) 10456
    -719

    magellan 9) 8784 11) 10681 8) 10484
    -197

    Randyman 10) 8557 8) 11198 12) 8597
    -2601

    abichara 11) 8256 12) 9493 11) 8638
    -855

    Molfan 12) 7449 13) 9365 13) 8416
    -949

    Redoedo 13) 7202 14) 8064 14) 7571
    -493

    Enkidu 14) 6523 ----------- 19) 6098
    -425

    LanceRoxas 15) 6412 15) 8051 17) 7075
    -976

    kolby1973 16) 6348 ----------- 30) 4543
    -1805

    Eschew Obfuscation 17)6058 17)7835 18)6164
    -1671

    scarletfeather 18) 6002 10) 10891 10) 10145
    -746

    Wiggum 19) 5933 ----------- 20) 5718
    -215

    vfern 20) 5803 20) 6540 21) 5667
    -873


    6) genghis the hun 14210 5) 13659
    -551

    7) CanadaSucks 11353 6) 11435
    +82

    16) Jed1000 7877 16) 7401
    -473

    18) Djahuti 7450 15) 7468
    +18

    19) louiethe20th 6964 25) 5337
    -1627

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  6. The most obvious thing one will notice is that almost EVERYONE was affected. By default (since they didn’t lose any helpful votes) the ones who actually benefited are the ever indifferent and aloof CanadaSucks and Djahuti.

    I rarely gave CanadaSucks a helpful mostly because I thought he was boring and had no balls whatsoever. The guy loves to run his mouth but won’t back it up. He is apparently so afraid of flame wars he avoids them at all costs. Preferring to stroke egos openly among top reviewers and anonymously rate other reviewers. He won’t even allow himself to be placed on the list. I am sure he has rated other reviewers low on that list anonymously. One day RIA might do the ultimate thing to provide INTEGRITY… Indicate who left a commentless rating and what that rating was. Ah how revealing that would be.

    But this breakdown is revealing as well…

    Irishgit lost over 3200 helpfuls. I can guarantee almost ALL of them came from GoneAway. Over my time there I gave the guy less than 200 I am sure. Aside from sarcasm and wasted commentary efforts on dumb weblists he has left a few good book reviews etc… But mostly the helpfuls I gave were when my name was mentioned. Especially in an insult. So Irishgit road that buddy chat with GoneAway to the tune of near 3000 helpfuls. Assuming the purge was complete (which I am not convinced it was).

    Castlebee lost over 3600 helpfuls. And I can also guarantee that almost all that was lost came from me. I know how many helpfuls (within reason) I gave out. And I had a specific desire to keep her #1 a LONG time. She deserved every one of the helpfuls I gave her but the vast majority of what she lost had to come from me. That means either the purge was not complete or that GoneAway gave her very few. GoneAway having not given her very few makes sense to some degree because an unwritten rule on the site is that you NEVER give helpfuls to someone you are about to pass on the Most Helpful list. And don’t give me any crap about that. I know it happens and I have spoken to more than a few regarding this issue.

    It may be petty but that is exactly what happens on the site. The mindset being that once that person is passed with enough breathing room you can make it up to them later. But the fact is when a user nears passing another user they will not give out helpfuls. Not nearly as might have been otherwise for certain.

    So Castlebee lost a great deal of them from me. The last time I recall going to her user page to drop a boatload of helpfuls was when she had approximately 3000 comments. And I am positive I cam damn close to clicking every one of them by the time I was done.

    Ignatius is another I know for a fact I gave well over 2400 or so helpfuls to during my time there. As with Castlebee, if the purge was complete that also indicates GoneAway gave him very few. I am not surprised. Despite her southern belle mentality the fact is she is a fundamentalist in several levels religiously or politically. And her agenda may be well hidden but it was always there. Twinmom101 saw it and the wrath from it on several occasions. So it stands to reason an admitted atheist would not gain many helpfuls from her anyway.

    Unfortunately Tboneya lost the most helpfuls. Nearly 25%. A user I respect well enough and gave plenty of helpfuls too. It would appear GoneAway did as well. Unlike Ignatius however Tboneya and she were close politically and religiously. Although he seems much more genuine and not the fundamentalist nutball like Donovan or the secret agenda type like GoneAway. I just wish he’d stop playing the games with other reviewers. He was much better when he was forceful and direct. Now he all too often joins in the parade of nonsense with sarcasm, ego stroking, and one upmanship. Such a waste really. Still, he is one of the best users and reviewers to be found on the site and it is no surprise he lost in that manner when two heavyweights leave. Unfortunate but not surprising.

    Numbah. Heh. I have said before that I like the guy just fine but he now ranks as the 3rd most helpful reviewer ever on that site. Few active users would admit it but, like me, they find it somewhat insulting. It isn’t a question of being funny. I have enjoyed his humor as many do. But in 6000 posts or so there is almost nothing worth reading. There is nothing helpful about the vast majority of his comments and to those who reference his “humor” as being helpful... give me a break. That makes no sense. The class clown may have been amusing most of the time but that didn’t make them a helpful participant in what was going on nor did it make them a good student. At the very least it did not make them a person who was viewed as contributing anything of value. Numbah lacks any substance at all. Only on a site like RIA could that fool make it to 3rd. Any site with users who respect themselves and the contributions made would not allow such a shallow overall contributor make it so high. And GoneAway played right along in that buddy network. I gave him few helpfuls. But Numbah has real life friends plastered all over the site. From his best friend to his best friends mother. RIA admins don’t necessarily like that and there is little they can do about it but the fact is such a personal network is bad when utilized as an online gang.

    And numbah can kiss my *ss if he tries to protest the gang mentality. He may even acknowledge it and show pride in it. Grow up. Stop hiding behind real life buddies. “Henchmen” as he calls them. Be a man and do something on your own. I find it pathetic not only that the mass of users allows that nimrod to make it to 3rd but that he thinks he adds ANYTHING of value. Admitting you are a dumb*ss never impressed me or amounted to a thing.

    One reason I left was the appearance of MadHatters mom. I thought it was bad enough that Irishgits son was visiting the site but when MadHatters mom showed up the conversations and interaction was embarrassing. Numbah may be a grown man as well as MadHatter but her interaction and many of her statements were ridiculous and sublime. And I have checked out the link to the ‘art” work. Don’t quit your day job. The subject matter of the art doesn’t bother me but employing a son to help advertise it is embarrassing.

    Ah yes. Now Kamylienne. A solid reviewer. I’d have to say GoneAway gave her few helpfuls because I know I gave plenty. I am not sure how many. But quite a few and almost whenever I saw her comment. She comes and goes from time to time. Even having mentioned leaving eventually. To that I say good for you. Far too sharp a person to be wasting time with the zoo. But she is far too accommodating in my mind. I have spoken to her often and she is quite stern in view. But so often on the site I see her making excuses for various things and it doesn’t fit. Not with the person I have spoken with. It isn’t the worst thing and the goal is likely to maintain some amount of peace. Hard*sses like me can’t relate to that very well. But she has remained steady and is close to where she deserves even after the purge. But keep in mind there are a few ahead of her who do not contribute nearly as much substance as she does.

    I prefer to reward effort. Numbah’s buddies have rewarded him for no other reason than being his real life buddy to the point he made it to 3rd. How many helpfuls did that online give Kamylienne? Very few I am sure. That may not bother Kamylienne but it has always bothered me. Effort should be rewarded. Kamylienne may approach things differently than I do (and RIA admin thanks god for that I am sure) but she makes an effort and few recognize it. On a site such as RIA effort and quality should be the goal. How else are the ratings to have meaning? Creating a list on porn names for users may be “amusing” but it requires little effort and has ZERO substance. And this is where Kamylienne and I differ the most. She actually gives credence to such a pathetic list by providing some sort of legitimate commentary. Lists such as that waste everyone’s time and drag the quality of the site into the gutter. Complete nonsense. She and many others should treat it as such. But I appear to be alone in that view. Then again, I was never part of the buddy network and despise such dumb*ss lists.

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  7. There isn’t much to say about Magellan. I genuinely like the PERSON. But I am very capable of separating that view from the “how a site is run” or “do they make logical decisions” view. My only real beef was my desire to speak freely was impeded. I am not a strong free speech advocate. But the fine line used on what is and is not a flame is ridiculous. And even if I agreed with the fine line used the fact is it was never implemented across the board and was therefore a TOOL or weapon and not a true rule or guideline. But I knew who he was and rarely gave him helpfuls. He doesn’t care about them and I sure as hell never made an effort to kiss his *ss. But I did give him some and I know GoneAway couldn’t stand him. So she says anyway. But based on her comments over time I would find it hard to believe she gave him a single helpful. But his total is more or less irrelevant. And I congratulate him on making it known who he is. My guess is most had an idea already. The only issue between us that remains is site quality. I personally think his goal, as with most red-blooded Americans is to make money. I can’t see how the goal would be quality, even if we disagree on what actually constitutes ‘quality” when he allows so much sh*t to pervade the site. But I am not surprised he lost few helpfuls. And he is one of few know who truly doesn’t care. After all, he is the one user can handle anyone or anything if need be. He could always generate 10 or so helpfuls for himself a day in the DB if he wanted to slowly rise up the list. Heh.

    Randyman. He lost almost all his helpfuls from GoneAway. I may not have given him one. This supposed tough guy is a lush really. Buying into the buddy system to the point my stomach was turning as I read an exchange between him and GoneAway that lasted all day. The subject of that exchange? Some kind of baked pie. Yeah, tough guys bake pie too. But I was not aware they discuss it repeatedly to gain helpfuls on a website. He is similar to Irishgit on the site when it comes to “toughness”. The only targets either ever pick are the easy ones such as CTVFan or some other moron who has crossed a line so obvious even the most idiotic can see the stupidity. But challenging other heavyweight users? Hardly. Hell, Randyman couldn’t get past me rating him 3 stars to the point he whined and acted tough for at least a week. Get a grip. Regardless of what many say in the buddy network your comments are relatively simple. Nice enough but that makes you average. You made it to the top 10 because you “play along”. Stop playing along and see how many helpful votes you get. But that isn’t the goal right? Yeah Right.

    Abichara and Molfan. On the outer reaches of RIA and the vast buddy network are stalwarts Abichara and Molfan. Top 5-10 reviewers who are on the outside looking in. I respect them both. They get involved now and again in the chatter of the buddy system but only as a side effect. These two actually provide substance to a site that desperately needs it. But as with Kamylienne… providing effort and substance is not rewarded. Such very good reviewers are all but ignored by the buddy network in place. It is a shame.

    Redoedo. Not much to say really. He is not as sharp as he believes and aside from indifferent praise few really care. He has come and gone several times and I am sure most of the helpfuls he lost came from me. I had not given him any (or few) in a long time as well. And even though he has tried to break into the buddy system he is not going to make the top 10 again. Maybe 10th if he is lucky but more likely he will be swept aside in the wake of more buddy system regulars who pass him on their way up the list. And he will never get past Numbah or others. They have far too vast a network in place. His only hope is that Numbah and his buddies grow tired of the site.

    Enkidu. Smart but rarely around. I personally believe this may be a heavyweights alias. I was never able to be sure. Regardless, he is around rarely now and his substance is missed. If I am wrong about the alias part he may very well be one of the smartest people ever to use the site. I would not be surprised at all if the juvenile level of comments has turned them away for good. I would be shocked if this user returned and took part in anything but a minor role with the buddy network. I would hope they have more pride than to do that. Unlike many other heavyweights who jump right in.

    LacenRoxas and Eschew. Very good reviewers who managed to avoid the buddy network well enough. But they have their own. Lance does at least. A brother I believe and Vfern, But unlike Numbahs online GANG they all seemed much more interested in substance and effort. I applaud them all. But it is easy to see that if you aren’t fully part of the buddy system you are ignored. And look where these solid reviewers sit currently… barely in the top 20.

    And let me stop to mention Vfern… I personally gave her 700 or more helpfuls. The reason is rather juvenile and I’ll explain another time but I’d like to applaud her. Of the new reviewers she was one of my favorites. I disliked some efforts by her to join in the buddy network but she made a post once I thought was remarkable. If I understand the context correctly it was quite brave as well and she ran the risk of commenting helpful vote suicide. At any rate, she and these other two gentlemen were only on the outskirts of the buddy network and never seemed to abuse the one they had built. Numbah and his online gang should take that under advisement. I am not the only one who views it as an online gang. I am just the only one who ever said it openly. And given how he and his hoard reacted it is no surprise that no one has mentioned it since. Heh.

    Kolby… Nice guy and genuine. Almost every helpful he lost came from me and I gave him many.

    Wiggum, Jed1000, and Djahuti. All are relatively solid reviewers who either aren’t around much or never got too involved in the buddy system. That also explains their low ranking and so few lost helpfuls. More examples of how quality is basically ignored.

    Scarletfeather. She is a good enough reviewer but you can see a huge jump in helpfuls when she grew more involved in the buddy system. She isn’t around much and hopefully has enough self-respect to avoid that if she returns again. I always assumed she did not like me. At least the reviewer I presented. I can understand what I suppose but I liked her just fine. We just had philosophical differences on key issues. I never viewed that as a reason to hate or to be mad. The one thing I always disliked was stupidity. And she said some stupid things. Still, she is quite intelligent and Numbah posts more stupidity in ten minutes than she can in a year.

    The last one I will mention although there are a few others on the list I haven’t is Genghis the hun. Genghis is by far the most pleased. Not only did GoneAway and myself leaving move him up two spots to 6th place but he moved to 5th place due to the purge. But it gets even better…

    He only lost about 500 helpfuls (almost all from GoneAway I am sure). All 4 still ahead of him lost 1000 or more helpfuls MORE than he did. So the gap closed. In the case of Ignatius he had a net gain of almost 2500 helpfuls. And he had a net gain of over 3000 on Castlebee and 2700 on Irishgit.

    And those are NOT insignificant amounts. Genghis plays among the buddy system and has risen even faster than Irishgit or I did by doing so. I did it based on pure comments provided. My helpful ratio rarely went over 2.0. He has surfed that buddy network like a champ. And passing Castlebee and Ignatius is now only a matter of time. But genghis still has to deal with Numbah and Irishgit.

    Irishgit will post 5000 one line, more or less pointless comments if necessary to generate 10000 or more helpfuls to stay ahead. It isn’t pretty but he has done similar things before. Probably because his pride cannot take being #2 having been #1 for so long. So passing Irishgit will not be easy. I personally believe only one user could ever have managed to pass him and they left. Heh. But Genghis is showing great legs. It remains to be seen if he can generate the support needed or maintain the commentary pace required. Which reminds me…

    Irishgit is likely laughing at all the scrolling comments Genghis has made on Counties in the US by state. My god that is so pathetic. The lists are pathetic as are the comments. I can understand some obscure and even some dumb lists but Counties? You have got to be kidding me. But then again each state has 60-100 or more. That is a lot of comments. And genghis is no fool. It is unlikely Irishgit, unless forced, will lower himself to comment on that type of thing. Even he has his limits and that has to be one of the most ridiculous lists ever created.

    But if it helps provide comments for the buddy network to rate who knows. Passing Numbah won’t be easy either. Only one other user has a personal buddy network as large as Numbahs. That would be the one belonging to Donovan. They have joined forces on a few occasions as well. But Numbahs group is far more active and aggressive. He has at least 5-7 solid members in his online gang. Donovan has 1-2 less perhaps. But Numbah is quite active as is his buddy network.

    Even Irishgit has to be concerned at this point about the sheer number of posts and helpfuls that group can generate for Numbah. I think pride will eventually win out. Irishgit will either discover it again in some real form and leave the site as he has mentioned so frequently or because of pride he will see he is about to be passed by a nitwit like Numbah and request a purge rather than suffer that indignity.

    One thing is for sure. The top opened up a lot to several users and even as they mention missing GoneAway they are quite pleased at the benefit it provided. Others are only going to be mad because they lost helpfuls. And few will have the courage to admit it matters to them. I have read of the given reason for GoneAway’s departure. I don’t buy it myself. But regardless of the reason I am glad to see she finally did it. Her routine of mentioning leaving and being silent only to return, explain why, and gain sympathy was rather pathetic. I will be interested to see if she does return eventually and if the admin restores her account to how it was when she left.

    And having looked over the numbers I don’t think the purge was complete but it was close enough. Thank you. I shouldn’t have to say thanks but I am trying to be nice about it. The fact was those were my helpfuls. And if my account was purged why did it take two weeks for the lost helpfuls to appear? I know how DBs work and what has happened when I purged comments from my weblists… The helpful loss was always automatic. For the purge of myself and GoneAway it was not. So there are either new DB settings or a policy change to prevent it being automatic. At least now my helpfuls given have been removed and I am satisfied for the most part about it. I’ll never be completely satisfied but that is another message altogether

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  8. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  9. Hey PBeavr -

    If you get a chance, email me at

    cbria-rateitall@yahoo.com

    Would have posted on your Blog but see that you don't accept outside posts.

    ~ CastleBee

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  10. I tried to email that address but got a user does not exist error.

    I tried two other addresses I have and will see if either of those get through. At any rate I will keep trying.

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Apture